Breathe in Place

Young Adult Roundtable: Walking Toward Purpose

• Montague Williams • Season 1 • Episode 6

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In this special episode of Breathe In Place, host Montague Williams introduces the first Young Adult Roundtable, a new segment designed to bring forward the voices of young people navigating faith, purpose, and the complexities of modern life.

In this episode, Montague is joined by three university students — Zackary Darker, Elianny Soto, and Lauren Hemberry — for an honest and thoughtful discussion about what it means to search for purpose in today’s world and how the practice of pilgrimage has helpfully shaped their journey.

Together, they explore questions of identity, calling, and resilience, offering insight into both the challenges and hopes that define young adulthood. Learn more about The Pilgrimage Innovation Hub by following us on Instagram: @pilgrimageinnovationhub

SPEAKER_01

Welcome back to Breathe in Place, a podcast about how the practice of pilgrimage can help young people find purpose, resilience, hope, and meaning in a complex and confusing world. I'm your host, Montag Williams. But we thought it would be a good idea if you could hear from young people themselves. To that end, I want to introduce you to our inaugural Young Adult Roundtable segment on the podcast. Every few episodes, we will feature a discussion with young adults who have been on a pilgrimage or are interested in doing so. We'll cover themes related to young adulthood, faith, and the practice of pilgrimage. On today's episode, I have three university students join me in a meaningful conversation around the topic of purpose. We focus on how they are finding purpose in the world and how pilgrimage has helped them do so. My hope is that through these young adult roundtables, you will get a sense into what some young people are feeling today, and that these insights will help you as you continue to build meaningful mentoring relationships with young people in your own lives. I hope you enjoyed this episode of Breathe in Place.

SPEAKER_00

The only way for something to contribute to our purpose, contribute to our meaning, is for us to connect with it from a face-to-face kind of perspective and point of view. And if we are disconnected, and if we do make it about I'm just learning, it is really hard to make that about your personal purpose in your life. But when we start to say, these people are my friend, I love these people, I love my neighbor here, that begins to show you that this is your purpose, is to love these people.

SPEAKER_01

Today I'm joined by three students here in San Diego, California, who are studying in the areas of theology, philosophy, and ministry. Each of them is in a season of asking big questions about vocation and calling. Let's begin with some introductions. So why don't we go around and introduce ourselves, uh, share your name and what you're studying? How about we start with Lauren?

SPEAKER_04

Hi, I'm Lauren Hemberry.

SPEAKER_03

I am studying theology, justice, and peace. I am Eliani Soto, and I'm also studying theology, justice, and peace.

SPEAKER_00

I'm Zach Darker, um Christian studies with a concentration in philosophy.

SPEAKER_01

I'm excited to hear a bit about pilgrimage stories today, but I thought we would just zoom out for a minute and just think a little bit about college years and the notion of purpose. It's often said that your age range, you know, during the college years, the traditional college age range, is a time when questions around purpose are like right on the front of your minds. Would you agree with that? And how do you see that playing out in your own lives? Lauren, why don't you start us off?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I feel like this college season is one of just that. Um, I feel like most of my friends have changed their majors at least once, usually two or three times. Um, and I'm one of few people I know who have stayed with the same major. But even within that, I'm questioning what what is my purpose within this major?

SPEAKER_01

And how do I And that's theology, justice, and peace?

SPEAKER_04

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

So are you trying to figure out do I go theology? Do I go justice? Do I go peace?

SPEAKER_04

It's more yes. You are at this point, it's more how do I integrate all of those things?

SPEAKER_01

Okay.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I would think so. So what are some of the things you're thinking about there?

SPEAKER_04

Well, that's a big question. Um, I've thought about law. I've thought about some kind of advocacy work. And I think I'm in this place now of wanting to operate within the church, um, whatever way that ends up looking like. I have no idea.

SPEAKER_01

Do you ever wonder if the church has a place for you? Like your passions and commitments. Do you wonder about that?

SPEAKER_04

Coming in strong. Uh I do wonder about I less less about that, more so I want to create that space. I've just kind of I think I've assumed there's not that space, and I want to create a space where people can bring up these questions of social justice, questions of biblical interpretation that works for people and their actual everyday lives.

SPEAKER_01

More of that. Eliani, why don't you jump in here on this? How's purpose or the questions around purpose playing out in your life?

SPEAKER_03

I mean, when you think about the conversations that happen in college, it's usually all about what are you gonna do? Um and that usually translates to who am I? And what's my purpose? Um, it's like all going in the same like direction, same like train.

SPEAKER_01

Um and so as you're answering questions around purpose or getting some clues or hints or embracing something around purpose, you're also learning something about who you are.

SPEAKER_03

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01

Wow.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. So I think more than like purpose itself, um I think I think a lot of us, and I will just speak from my experience, but I have found myself asking mys asking a lot of questions of, and where did I come from and why does this is why is this so important to me? And why do I want this major and why what am I gonna do?

SPEAKER_01

So that's so interesting, Eliane, because in some ways you're pointing out that college is full of thinking about the future, but you find yourself thinking about the journey to where you are right now. And so to learn about where you're going, your deep exploration is well, where have I actually been? And how have those places or those moments been a part of getting me here? How will they be a part of where I'm going?

SPEAKER_03

Wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Do you find that there's things I I know this is a journey and you probably don't have it all figured out, I I would assume. Uh, we all are on a journey of learning and discerning. But as you've done that, have you found things where you think this is a part of my journey to this point? And here are some things I want to take with me, and here are some things I want to leave behind.

SPEAKER_03

That's such a good question. And yes, I there's a lot of moments and a lot of things in my life that are intricate and come they're extremely important to why and how I'm doing things as of right now. And then there's also things that not parti it's not necessarily not necessarily that I want to take away, but I want to transform into something else. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I have so many questions for you, but I'm gonna ask you this one. What were and then we're gonna jump to Zach. But when you think I want to transform into something else, what do you look to to begin imagining who that is or life is all about imagination.

SPEAKER_03

Like it's about dreaming and a career. Maybe no one thought that being a lawyer could be a thing until they looked really deep within the world and they said there's needs to be someone who advocates and there needs to be someone that speaks. Um so just thinking about things that are created and kind of dreaming a little bit bigger.

SPEAKER_01

Cool. Zach, why don't you jump in here? Uh we're talking about purpose, we're talking about how questions around purpose uh are a part of this age range, this traditional college age range. And how do you see that playing out in your own life?

SPEAKER_00

To Lauren's point about created space, there are not very many moments, places, age gaps, times to talk about meaning and to talk about purpose in life. And I think as you're growing up, you have this childhood and parents and expectations and school. And then as you have children, get married, get a job that you have to go to every day for eight hours, it becomes hard to find spaces where you can talk about meaning and purpose. And I also think that in the church, for a lot of my experience in my life, it has been we are teaching you your purpose and your meaning rather than I'm inviting you to question and to consider your purpose and meaning, which is what college in my experience has been. And there's this creative space to question, to think about, be curious, as opposed to we're telling you what you need to do with your life.

SPEAKER_01

Aaron Ross Powell Yeah, I mean, that's really interesting if it is true, and I think enough research does show that it is, that the question of purpose plays a big role in many things college students, people in that 18 to 22, even 25 year old age range, what what you're thinking about. It's so much in your minds. But if there's not places to have the conversation, it's like a spinning conversation in your mind where with nowhere to go. And so it is a question around cultivating that kind of place. I mean, you have named right here that you feel like there aren't many places. So where do you find places for this?

SPEAKER_00

I think in the classroom, in our school of theology and Christian ministry, the professors make it a goal to create that space to consider those things. Um that is probably where I would go to first. And then in conversations with colleagues and friends that are also in those classes, um, spaces like this that we have opportunities to talk with other people our age that are thinking the same things. But I do think it is an issue that that's kind of all I can think of. Um and I kind of make it a part of my life in the gaps. But as far as intentional created spaces to consider the meaning and purpose of your life, I don't I think that we are in need of of more of that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, because you know, your sense of purpose is not just your job, right? Your job is a part of that, but your life, your purpose, your vocation is much more than just the job, like you said, the eight hours a day kind of thing. It is a way of life, and there's a sense of purpose that can find its way in how you're a friend or a neighbor, or uh how you encounter people at the store, uh or what kinds of issues you dedicate your life to, even if you're not getting paid for that dedication. Of course, it's nice when you can blend those two, right? Um well, the interesting thing, you know, that we are learning about pilgrimage practices is that they can be a part of this sort of cultivation of place to have these kinds of conversations. And I know that each of you have had your own touch and experiences with pilgrimage along the way. Uh, some have had it through more structured things through a school or a church, some through other kinds of trips. And I know, Zach, you're working on creating a pilgrimage right now for a youth group, which is pretty interesting. Um, but I just thought I would open up the space just for each of you to share a bit about a pilgrimage that you have been on uh and how you think it might have served a role in helping you discern purpose. So instead of just continuing to go in that kind of circle we're doing, how about we uh jump back to Eliani?

SPEAKER_03

All right. Um, so what one pilgrimage is.

SPEAKER_01

I know you've been on a lot. I know for our listeners, you just ought to know. Eliani is uh, let's just say she's a big fan of pilgrimage practice. So yeah, I know for you you're thinking like which one? You know, you can maybe how about you just share a little bit of share a briefly about the pilgrimages you've been on, and then maybe pick one of those to just talk about purpose and how it's helped you lean into purpose.

SPEAKER_03

All right. Um I well I've been on two from PLNU. And that's the university that you attend, yeah.

unknown

Right.

SPEAKER_03

And um the first one was the civil rights pilgrimage. And the second one was well no, actually, the first one was border pilgrimage, and then the second one was civil rights. I've gone on three border pilgrimage um pilgrimages and as a leader, right? One as a leader. Okay. And it was they've all been very different, though we've gone to the same places. Um and yeah, I'll just go with the civil rights pilgrimage. Okay because that one all of them have been really impactful, but the but the civil rights pilgrimage opened my eyes in a way that I don't think that I it would have affected me in any way. And because it was about the United States. And I'm not from the United States.

SPEAKER_01

Um could you just back up a bit? You're talking about the civil rights pilgrimage, and I can imagine some people can make some assumptions about what that means, but I know that you did a trip to the Southeast, to certain southern states. You visited some museums. Can you tell us just a little bit about that? Unpack it just a little bit.

SPEAKER_03

Aaron Powell Right. Um The Civil Rights Pilgrimage was a historical uh journey in a way. And we visited different sites. We went to Alabama and we went to Atlanta, and we went to different museums and we went to different churches and we heard from foot soldiers, or we heard from people that have been or were part of the civil uh or when I hear foot soldiers, the first thing I think someone could be thinking of would be kind of like characters from the Ninja Turtles.

SPEAKER_01

But that's not what you mean. No. What do you mean by foot soldiers?

SPEAKER_03

They were people that stood um or marched, and they they were the front were students in that moment, or this person was on the front lines on the front lines movement. And um it was so cool to like hear from them too, because they had to train to be peaceful, which I have never could I had never considered until that point.

SPEAKER_01

Training to be peaceful.

SPEAKER_03

Training to be peaceful. That was something so like out of my imagination, I guess. Um it was, yeah, very cool uh to hear from this person. Uh but more than that, the group of people that I went with were so important to my experience. Okay. Um like right after the pilgrimage, I changed my major. That was, I think, psychology in that moment. And I went straight to social work. And I was like, I need to be here. Um, so it really impacted the way that I saw myself in this world and what I wanted to do, what I wanted to focus on, who I wanted to focus on. Um it was impactful more than just like the places that I went to, the conversations that were had uh were conversations that I wouldn't have really engaged in before. Um, not particularly because I didn't, I wasn't interested, but because I just didn't have the knowledge prior to the.

SPEAKER_01

Tell me a little bit about this. You said that the people you went with were important. It helped shape some conversations. I find that really interesting because one important marker of pilgrimage is the form formation of community and the way people find themselves drawn into community and allow that community to shape this journey for them. So as you're asking questions around my purpose and my sense of identity, you're also finding yourself uh drawn into a certain kind of we. So this community is kind of answering questions for you, even if they're not doing it intentionally. They're helping you discern together. I find that really interesting that pilgrimage can create that. What do you think that's about?

SPEAKER_03

The community aspect. Um well, a pilgrimage, we're immersed in such a deep uh experience to keep it all inside would honestly just break a lot of us. We needed community. Oh, wow. We needed to, we needed to sing together. We needed to, like my roommates and I that I I had just met in that trip. Um, we we did a uh dance workout at night because we just needed to let our bodies feel a little free.

SPEAKER_01

Okay. Now someone could say, but you're just learning history. What's the big deal? You need this? Like you're just on a trip learning history. Hey, what would you say to that if someone thought like that's all it is?

SPEAKER_03

How can we separate ourselves from history? History is us. And to know that something so hurtful happened to so many people, how can we separate our our pain from their pain? It um we need to, um, I needed to connect. It's pretty to to not be able to connect our pain to the pain that was before us is to deny a big part of the world.

SPEAKER_01

So there's something about this pilgrimage experience that draws you into community, not only with the people who are on that physical journey with you, but it's drawing you into community with people in the past, with their stories. Zach, I don't know if this resonates with you in any way, but I was wondering if you would want to speak into this, you could share a bit about a pilgrimage you've been on, um, or you can dialogue a bit with what Eliane is sharing.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think this idea of bridging the gap of this disconnection that we might have with things that we're not familiar with is what pilgrimage can do. And so, in my experience, the main pilgrimage I think about that I've been on is we're at a conference in Chicago for a class that you were teaching, Dr. Williams. And we each went on different pilgrimages for the conference, and the one I went on was in a neighborhood in Chicago that was primarily a Latino um community. And there was a pastor facilitating it, but the pastor brought in his friend who doesn't go to church, doesn't isn't a pastor or anything like that, doesn't call himself Christian, um, to lead that pilgrimage for us. And it was an interesting dynamic that this person that didn't have any maybe theological authority at this Christian conference or theological training was able to teach us about the culture and it bridged that disconnect that we might have of like, this is not my neighborhood, I'm just learning, versus I've now become friends with this person that's leading this pilgrimage, guiding us through. And I now feel connected because I know this person. This community is now face to face with me, as opposed to uh abstract, I'm just learning. And so I think that. In Eliani's case, this coming face to face with the detailed histories and the foot soldiers and the museums and her roommates and all these things, um that is what pilgrimage can do, is kind of humanize what we've dehumanized and make concrete what we've made abstract.

SPEAKER_01

Aaron Ross Powell Now, how would you say any of that contributed to your sense of purpose or just your moments of discerning purpose if it if it has it all?

SPEAKER_00

Aaron Ross Powell I think purpose is such a personal thing. Meaning is such a deep and, like I said, personal thing that the only way for something to contribute to our purpose, contribute to our meaning, is for us to connect with it from a face-to-face kind of perspective and point of view. And if we are disconnected and if we do make it about I'm just learning, it is really hard to make that about your personal purpose in your life. But when we start to say, um, these people are my friend. I love these people, I love my neighbor here. That begins to show you that this is your purpose, is to love these people. Your purpose is to connect with this person leading the pilgrimage. Your purpose is to um connect with this community and understand the um sufferings that they might go to through, the prosperity they may go through, um, the good and the bad, and to love and to connect.

SPEAKER_01

It's interesting. I hear you saying that we discern our sense of purpose in the face of another. And on this pilgrimage, you visited this place where you could just walk through the place, learn about the place, but what you actually did was encounter another person's face, take their story seriously, and it kind of transforms the way you see even the buildings. Yeah. The way you see the street, the grass, the billboards, because their story, their face is important to you. Yeah, that's that is um that's not something that's easy, you know, to put into words when we talk about like what is pilgrimage, uh, but that that recognition of discerning purpose in the face of another, that that's really helpful. Uh Lauren, what are you hearing in the midst of all this? Where does this take you?

SPEAKER_04

I'm thinking a lot about Zach, what you were saying about uh buildings and Dr. Williams buildings and grasses and billboards. And for me, I went on border pilgrimage. The thing that is ingrained into me now are these places. Um one of the places we went on border pilgrimage was Chicano Park, which is in Barrio Logan, and learning about the history, like Eliani was saying, the history of this park and the people who fought to get this park to be created, and the government's response in building a highway over this park and the current medical issues of families living in this area now caused by what the government has done. I'm I'm just thinking about all these places and the stories behind them. And it changes what I see as my environment, what I see as my purpose, in that like I can't, I can't unsee it. And I feel like I have a responsibility to tell people about the reality we're living in, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01

So you found uh in learning a story of a particular place, you found that there's a sort of responsibility to share this story. That's interesting. I mean, you hear lots of stories, right? Uh but for some reason this shouted out to you as purpose. So what would you say in this moment uh clicked for you in terms of calling? When when did calling click for you?

SPEAKER_04

So to tell that story, I have to tell another story.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_04

Also on border pilgrimage, we went to Whiskey 8, which is just a section of the border between San Diego and Tijuana. And we're on the US side, and there is this tent set up for helping people who are crossing over the border. So it changes all the time. But at the time we went, when you crossed over, you were allowed to have one backpack, um, one outfit. So whatever fit on your body and in your backpack basically was all you got. And so there was this tent here with people's belongings that they had to leave behind, and as well as new clothes to give people if they needed something, something better than what they had. And in this tent of things left behind, there was a mini mouse doll. And this was a beloved doll. Like it was you could tell this was a doll someone had dearly loved. And knowing that some kid had to leave that behind was heart-wrenching. And the calling part came when I tried to share these experiences, these stories with people I knew about this mini mouse doll. I was talking to a family member and I explained this, seeing this doll. And she responded by saying, Well, you know, sometimes they try and sneak Coke in those. Yeah. And I think purpose and calling came around conversations. Conversations where people just did not understand the experience. And um So I came to understand my purpose in calling as inviting people into these experiences and into these conversations where they can experiences, experience what other people are actually going through and start to humanize other human beings?

SPEAKER_01

One of the unique things about pilgrimage is that it's called pilgrimage. You know, the language can have an impact in and of itself. But so many aspects of a pilgrimage can look like any other trip. And I was just wondering, for any of you who went on a pilgrimage of some sort, was there ever a moment when you recognized this is not just any other kind of trip? Like, I I get why this is called a pilgrimage. Yeah, Zach, go for it.

SPEAKER_00

The thing about pilgrimage is that it is that created space to consider meaning. And it's the intentionality of what are we truly doing here and what is the meaning of this? And I think trips like vacations or camp trips where you go up to the mountains. It can be I'm here to zip line or I'm here to look at the views and take pictures. But when there's the intentionality of this pilgrimage is for meaning making, purpose-finding, uncovering hidden stories, then it creates that space for participants to realize that this is more than just a trip. This is something that can shape and inform me and how I'm going to live my life.

SPEAKER_01

So something about something about the intentionality is an openness to letting it change your life. Yeah. Anyone else is has was there ever a moment on any of these pilgrimages where you just you recognize this is not just any other kind of trip? Yeah. Eliana, go ahead.

SPEAKER_03

I think I'll go back to border pilgrimage.

SPEAKER_01

Because you went on one as well.

SPEAKER_03

I was I was on that one.

SPEAKER_01

The same one with Lauren. Okay.

SPEAKER_03

But that was my f the first time I had ever wept in public in such a way that I did not know that the things that I saw were so important to me. I had never thought about how sad I felt before this moment. Um I remember touching the border walls.

SPEAKER_01

And this is like this rusty brown wall, or is it a different one?

SPEAKER_03

In Tijuana.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, in Tijuana is the colorful. Oh, it's colorful, okay.

SPEAKER_03

With the names of people and the dreams of people. And um I remember that they asked us to put our hands and pray.

SPEAKER_01

This must be at border church where this happened. At border church. Okay.

SPEAKER_03

Um, and I touched the walls and I remembered all the stories that I had just listened to and held hands with the people um that had loved me so much in that particular moment. I remember um talking to this family, and there was so much pain that they had just endured. Um, and there were little girls that were asking me when they were eight when they were when they were gonna see third father again. Um and I touch this wall and I see the dream.

SPEAKER_02

Wow.

SPEAKER_03

And it's rusty and without color on the other side. And I oh like I can see the other side.

SPEAKER_01

They want to get to the other side, and you know it's on the other side.

SPEAKER_03

And it's n yeah. And the dreams that these little girls I had I had just shared in the beginning, life is about imagination. And it I broke down at the thought of what would happen when they hit the reality of their dream. Um and I just wept and I stayed there long before after the prayer had finished. Um, and I didn't notice when it had finished, I just knew that in my head I had to keep praying and keep touching the walls. But that was the moment that I said, this is not just a trip, this is not just a moment that I'm here to enjoy. This is beyond what I can imagine as of right now.

SPEAKER_01

You know, they do say, and we do find that pilgrimage uh is to be filled with some intentional prayer practice. And um I think you just named a deep intersection between the work of pilgrimage and the work of prayer, and that sort of dependence on God for the way we encounter people and stories and place. I thought I would just uh begin closing out our conversation today with this question. How has the impact of pilgrimage remained for you, like up to now? How's it remained a part of your life? And maybe you want to take that as like this is how it it shows up, or maybe this is how I'm trying to let it be a part of my life. It's up to you. Yeah, Lauren, go ahead.

SPEAKER_04

I think in a lot of ways it's shown up in just I feel like I live with a constant anger now. Like I the way that I'm I'm seeing the world, I'm seeing the brokenness. And it's not that I didn't see it before, it's that I'm seeing more of it now, and in so many ways. And I'm a theology justice and peace major. I grew up as a pastor's kid. I like I'm heavily involved in the church. And all of this anger, a lot of it is directed towards the church and the the lack of care and action that I see there. It's remained with me in that I I can't I cannot separate out the way of following Jesus from the way of I mean, just care it's caring for your neighbor, but you can't separate out following Jesus from caring about like the political realities of the place you're in. Like what I what I vote for and what I speak about has actual impact to real people. And uh there's just this greater sense of responsibility and purpose and calling that I feel now.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, Zach. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_00

I think that uh deep anger that you're speaking of and the deep sadness that Eliani talked about in her story, at least in my experience, can be classified as like despair. And I think that when we have these face-to-face experiences, it causes despair, or maybe a realization of the despair that we have been experiencing but just ignoring. And that's scary. And so that is why, in my belief, we tend to put ourselves in places where we don't have to think about that stuff, where we don't have to think about purpose and meaning and this little girl losing her stuffed animal. Um and I think what pilgrimage does is remind us that that's not okay. And it's not okay to ignore these stories, because there are people that can't, that don't have the privilege to ignore the despair that they're experiencing. And so for me, that is at the end of the day, what pilgrimage does is it brings us face to face with the despair that we have been ignoring because we have the privilege to ignore it when others don't.

SPEAKER_01

And and that despair seems to also be an invitation to God's grace and God's calling towards responsibility. And I think it's so important, Eliani, as you talked about the sense of purpose coming not just from God directly to you, but I mean, it is that, but also through the community, it's also a reminder that as we see these needs in the world and we cultivate room for the kinds of passion that connects with the gospel and the calling and way of Jesus, the calling is not just to us, it's also shared with the community. And we don't have to become the Messiah, but we get to collectively depend on Christ. But it does take some courage. It takes a sort of responsibility to consider things that are so easy to ignore. Everything is saying ignore it. And pilgrimage is saying I'm gonna intentionally, I'm going to intentionally be open to this. I'm going to let let a place, a person, a story, a community transform me.

SPEAKER_03

Sure. Yeah. Um I mean, I want to go on every pilgrimage. Um because I want to I want to hold hands with people. Like I want, I really want to be able to hold and be held. Like pilgrimage, I really liked something that Lauren said. She said, to tell this story, I have to tell another story.

SPEAKER_01

Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

That for me is pilgrimage. To tell this story, I must tell my neighbor's story. I must know this little girl's story. I if you see the mini mouse, let me tell you how much she loved this mini mouse. But only I can only do that through going, through actually talking, through looking at people's eyes. What else are we supposed to do? Like this is what human experience, what God calls us to do to love, is not just about, yes, it's to love the person right in front of you. But the person right in front of you has a story that extends beyond maybe what they even know. And I really want to know that part as well. Pilgrimage is literally the place where I can just experience a love, expand my knowledge, my knowledge of love. And um, I mean, the all I'm a theology justice and peace major because in a way, pilgrimage, like life is a pilgrimage, but if we have the intentional, like intentional um choice to go, then that's like I want to take it.

SPEAKER_01

Well, I want to thank all three of you for sharing about your experiences and for sharing your reflections today. I mean, very moving, very helpful. Thank you.

SPEAKER_04

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01

You've been listening to Breathe in Place, a podcast brought to you by the Pilgrimage Innovation Hub. This podcast is made possible by generous support from the Lily Endowment, narrative production by Guimel Sabingo, technical production by Danny Martinez, and project coordination and guest booking by Wanda Gailey. Opening music by Chaos. If you have any questions or comments about today's episode, we'd love to hear from you. Send us an email at pilgrimage at pointloma.edu or message us on Instagram at Pilgrimage Innovation Hub. I'm your host, Montag Williams. Thanks again for joining us. We'll see you next week.